More Hobbitry
Jan. 9th, 2013 01:07 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
woodwardiocomFirst off, who noticed the dwarf women in the Erebor scenes in The Hobbit? A Tolkien first! (Did their beards make it into the film?)
Second, a brief discussion of "Riddles In The Dark":
There are three-plus versions of the story of Gollum, Bilbo, and the ring. To begin, there's the version found in the first edition of The Hobbit, before the ring was The One Ring in Tolkien's mind. In this version, Gollum is willing to offer the ring to Bilbo as a prize in the riddle-contest, and he and Bilbo part on civil terms. We'll call this the Red Book version. In this version, Bilbo has pretty clear title to the ring.
Second, there's the version found in every other edition of The Hobbit, in which Gollum values the ring above all else, and Bilbo needs to flee for his life at the end. We'll call this the True version.
Third, there's the story Bilbo tells the dwarves as soon as he rejoins them (chapter 6), which is apparently identical to the true version (including the riddles, Gollum trying to kill him, and he having to flee), but with no mention of the ring. We'll call this the No-Ring Lie.
And, fourth, in Mirkwood, Bilbo retells the story to the dwarves, "with the ring in its proper place" (chapter 8). This version is apparently identical to the True version.
Unfortunately, Tolkien couldn't keep this straight. During the Council of Elrond, Bilbo tells the True story, and apologizes to Gloin for lying before, saying that he told the lie in order to give himself a clear right to the ring. He seems to believe that he told Gloin the Red Book version, when in fact he only ever told Gloin the No-Ring Lie, and the True version. He has no need to apologize to Gloin, since he told him the truth decades earlier, and never told a story that made the ring properly his.
It's also suggested in the foreword to one of the books that the Red Book version is the version he told the dwarves, when in fact it's utterly not.
This confusion is touched upon in The Annotated Hobbit, but I wanted to write it up to get it clear in my brain.
Second, a brief discussion of "Riddles In The Dark":
There are three-plus versions of the story of Gollum, Bilbo, and the ring. To begin, there's the version found in the first edition of The Hobbit, before the ring was The One Ring in Tolkien's mind. In this version, Gollum is willing to offer the ring to Bilbo as a prize in the riddle-contest, and he and Bilbo part on civil terms. We'll call this the Red Book version. In this version, Bilbo has pretty clear title to the ring.
Second, there's the version found in every other edition of The Hobbit, in which Gollum values the ring above all else, and Bilbo needs to flee for his life at the end. We'll call this the True version.
Third, there's the story Bilbo tells the dwarves as soon as he rejoins them (chapter 6), which is apparently identical to the true version (including the riddles, Gollum trying to kill him, and he having to flee), but with no mention of the ring. We'll call this the No-Ring Lie.
And, fourth, in Mirkwood, Bilbo retells the story to the dwarves, "with the ring in its proper place" (chapter 8). This version is apparently identical to the True version.
Unfortunately, Tolkien couldn't keep this straight. During the Council of Elrond, Bilbo tells the True story, and apologizes to Gloin for lying before, saying that he told the lie in order to give himself a clear right to the ring. He seems to believe that he told Gloin the Red Book version, when in fact he only ever told Gloin the No-Ring Lie, and the True version. He has no need to apologize to Gloin, since he told him the truth decades earlier, and never told a story that made the ring properly his.
It's also suggested in the foreword to one of the books that the Red Book version is the version he told the dwarves, when in fact it's utterly not.
This confusion is touched upon in The Annotated Hobbit, but I wanted to write it up to get it clear in my brain.
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Date: 2013-01-10 01:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-10 02:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-10 02:03 am (UTC)A small difference, but a significant one, I think. Especially in light of your post.
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Date: 2013-01-10 02:35 pm (UTC)How am I going to wait a year for the next movie?
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Date: 2013-01-10 08:37 pm (UTC)