The Mo Movie Measure

[woodwardiocom]

-As chronicled by drwex, the subject of the Mo Movie Measure came up at the Diesel last night. It's a test to see if a movie is adequately feminist. The movie . . .

1. . . . Has to have at least two women in it, who
2. talk to each other about
3. something besides a man.

-Out of curiosity, I browsed my Netflix list of recently seen movies (and thought back to some non-Netflixed movies) to see which passed the test . . .

• Alien vs. Predator: Yes; two female characters briefly discuss a helicopter flight.
• Batman (1966): No; Catwoman is the only female character with dialog.
• Our Man Flint: No.
• On the Waterfront: No.
• Assault on Precinct 13 (1976): Unlikely, unless the two secretaries discuss coffee.
• Parallel Dual: Possibly.
• Wrath of the Ninja: Doubtful.
• Henry & June: Yes; the two female leads talk to each other, about each other.
• The Dish: Yes; some of the supporting female characters discuss the moon landing.
• Insomnia: Doubtful.
• Dagon: Erm, maybe technically.
• Indiscreet: Lord, no.
• Existenz: Yes.
• Wild Orchid: Yes; the two female leads discuss business occasionally.
• Chocolat: Yes.
• Dial M for Murder: No; only one female character.
• Sakura Wars: Yes, definitely
• House, M.D. (Disc 1): Yes.
• Roughnecks: The Starship Troopers Chronicles: The Klendathu Campaign: Probably, though I doubt the dialogue was particularly scintillating.
• Cruel Intentions: Oh, probably not. (Correction, per msbutterpecan: They talk about kissing.)

Comments

[msbutterpecan.livejournal.com]

Cruel Intentions was a horrid film...but two girls talk to each other about kissing...each other...they sort of discuss boys in there too, though. Does that invalidate the whole conversation?

[signsoflife.livejournal.com]

In fact, my first thought. Well, after, "it's not actually Mo in that DTWOF; it predated continuity."

And I'm pretty sure the mother of the "innocent" girl talked to SMG about God.

[woodwardiocom.livejournal.com]

"it's not actually Mo in that DTWOF; it predated continuity."

[nods]

And I'm pretty sure the mother of the "innocent" girl talked to SMG about God.

-Does God count as a guy? Hmm . . .

Is god a guy?

[signsoflife.livejournal.com]

. . . would you believe I didn't analyze it that closely? I feel like CI MUST have had at least one conversation between women in which one was demonstrating her "goodness" by the conversation being deliberately NOT about guys; whether that fulfills the *intent* of Nameless Bechdel Character is another question.

[bridgetminerva.livejournal.com]

correction: Our Man Flint: yes. I just ff the movie to double check.

[woodwardiocom.livejournal.com]

-Who talks, and what do they talk about?

[bridgetminerva.livejournal.com]

Before openingCredits all the military computer operators are woman and they are seen talking. We cna't hear the dialog.

Daisey (my name for ther blonde with the daisy in her hair) is talking to the the store clerk during kidkapping. She talks about shopping.

I had to put the movie on hold to deal with Aileen right at the part were he "diesmore later when I watch it.

[woodwardiocom.livejournal.com]

-Cool, looks like Our Man Flint slides through.

[ceo]

As I'm fond of pointing out, The Hunt For Red October very nearly meets the letter, if so very not the spirit, of this test despite the last line spoken by a woman being before the opening credits finish.

sorry, but no.

[(Anonymous)]

If memory serves, the only two women in the THFRO are Jack's wife and the flight attendant, and they don't talk to each other? Or does Jack's daughter have a line of dialogue with her mother?
---nathaniel

Re: sorry, but no.

[ceo]

In the opening scenes, Jack's wife is giving instructions to an offscreen babysitter ("Mrs. Wheeler") regarding the care of their daughter. If the babysitter had a line, it would pass the test.

Re: sorry, but no.

[(Anonymous)]

OK, I gotcha. However, does a mother and a babysitter talking about childcare sound that liberated?

Re: sorry, but no.

[ceo]

Not even slightly. That's why I said it "very nearly meets the letter, if so very not the spirit, of this test".

(While I appreciate that the filmmakers didn't try to add a stupid artificial love interest to the story, they could at least have had a female general in the briefing room or something.)

[fadethecat.livejournal.com]

Now that's an entertaining rating system. Looking at my own Netflix queue is suddenly enlightening.

[mshathvri.livejournal.com]

Oh that's fascinating. Now I have to watch movies for a while.

[drwex]

Dear gods what have we started.

I'm pleased and amused that the Wikipedia entry correctly notes that it couldn't possibly have been Mo. See also http://alisonbechdel.blogspot.com/2005/08/rule.html which someone linked in my LJ.

[inthatoneway.livejournal.com]

Some of my favorites:

Star Wars: Only two women talk, and not in the same scene.
Raiders of the Lost Ark: Only one women with lines?
Casablanca: I don't think two women ever speak to each other.
Alien: I'm pretty sure Ripley says something to the other woman. Yay, one that passes!

[jadasc.livejournal.com]

The Rocky Horror Picture Show: Yes. Columbia talks to Magenta about the quality of the job of stripping Brad and Janet (half credit), and speculates to her about whether Janet is a virgin. (Janet does talk directly to Columbia, but that's about a 'man.')

[fotofile2002.livejournal.com]

Legally Blonde ! Two women talk to each other about going to law school.

my top 10

[(Anonymous)]

Raiders of the Lost Ark: No two women talk to each other.
Blade Runner: No two women talk to each other.
Casablanca: I No two women talk to each other.
Citizen Kane: I doubt it
A Fish Called Wanda: Yes, Cleese's wife and daughter have several conversations.
GoodFellas: When the wives get together, they're talking about men or what their men have bought for them.
Rear Window: I can't recall if Grace Kelly ever talks to the nurse, or what they talk about.
Silence of the Lambs: Clarice talks to her classmate about Lecter, but does he count as a "man"?
Clarice also talks to the woman imprisoned in the well, but it's basically a conversation about Buffalo Bill.
Singin' In The Rain: One nameless moviegoer, while watching Lina Lamont, delivers one of the funniest lines: "She's so refined. I think I'll kill myself." Lina and Zelda also chat, but it's about Don Lockwood.
Young Frankenstein: I think all three women (Kahn, Garr, and Leachman) only talk about Frankenstein.
--Nathaniel

Re: my top 10

[woodwardiocom.livejournal.com]

Young Frankenstein: I think all three women (Kahn, Garr, and Leachman) only talk about Frankenstein.

-Nope; Kahn asks Garr, "So, my dear, what is it that you do?" Garr replies, "Oh, I assist Dr. Frankenstein in the laboratory." Oh, oops, there's a guy. Hmm.

Re: my top 10

[woodwardiocom.livejournal.com]

Raiders of the Lost Ark: No two women talk to each other.

-Ah-ha, wrong! Marion and Unnamed Egyptian Woman talk about the monkey.

(One might propose a "strong form" of the MMM, in which both women have to have names known to the viewer, and the conversation has to be more than two lines long.)

Re: my top 10

[(Anonymous)]

But is the monkey a MALE monkey? He wears a vest, so I say yes.