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I just added this lengthy comment in my previous post, as a reply to ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
jordan179. I thought it was worth bringing out for its own post. (Slightly edited for the different context.)
As a white person, I can understand the "it's bad if whites do it, therefore it's bad if blacks do it" position, since I've thought the same way from time to time. The reasons I have thought this way are:
1) The power of analogy is tempting. "Such-n-such happened to a black person. If such-n-such happened to me, how would I feel?"
2) My desire for justice believes that the same rules (of laws, of etiquette) should apply to everyone.
3) I have spent my life learning stuff, in order to better understand stuff, and this is just one more thing to learn, right?
The problem is that the lifetime experiences of a black person (or a woman, or a homosexual) are radically different from mine. There is pervasive discrimination that simply does not happen to me. They therefore bring an expertise to these topics that I do not share, and can't learn except by listening to them.
This is intensely frustrating! I'm a smart guy, with a good education, so I'm used to being right about stuff. The epiphany came when I had to admit that it was literally impossible for me to understand what their experiences were like, and I would never be able to match or exceed their expertise in the issues.
Therefore, in order for me to not say wrong things on the topic, it is absolutely required for me to listen to them, defer to their expertise, seek out their help, and acknowledge my own ignorance in the area.
Now, we've agreed that racism is bad. The problem is that the definition of "a racist act" has very fuzzy boundaries. White people set them in one place, black people have a larger set, Jews have a different set, Southerners, Northerners, Republicans, Democrats, SF fans, etc.
Given the above, when people disagree about whether a specific act is racist, the greatest expertise on the topic will generally not come from white people. When the white people are informed of this, they tend to get really cranky.
This is a problem in any demographic, but it can be worse for SF fans. One of the strongest messages of Campbellian SF is that smart people can solve any problem (even if it involves laws of physics you just discovered this morning), and if you read SF, you're one of the smart people. A more subtle message of Campbellian SF is "Men of Northern European extraction are the best!", since (per Asimov), Campbell actually believed that.
So, smart SF fans of Northern European extraction, when they are told that they are wrong about issues of race, and are incapable of gathering the experiences necessary to be experts, throw huge pissy fits.
They need to learn to admit their ignorance and listen.
jordan179. I thought it was worth bringing out for its own post. (Slightly edited for the different context.)As a white person, I can understand the "it's bad if whites do it, therefore it's bad if blacks do it" position, since I've thought the same way from time to time. The reasons I have thought this way are:
1) The power of analogy is tempting. "Such-n-such happened to a black person. If such-n-such happened to me, how would I feel?"
2) My desire for justice believes that the same rules (of laws, of etiquette) should apply to everyone.
3) I have spent my life learning stuff, in order to better understand stuff, and this is just one more thing to learn, right?
The problem is that the lifetime experiences of a black person (or a woman, or a homosexual) are radically different from mine. There is pervasive discrimination that simply does not happen to me. They therefore bring an expertise to these topics that I do not share, and can't learn except by listening to them.
This is intensely frustrating! I'm a smart guy, with a good education, so I'm used to being right about stuff. The epiphany came when I had to admit that it was literally impossible for me to understand what their experiences were like, and I would never be able to match or exceed their expertise in the issues.
Therefore, in order for me to not say wrong things on the topic, it is absolutely required for me to listen to them, defer to their expertise, seek out their help, and acknowledge my own ignorance in the area.
Now, we've agreed that racism is bad. The problem is that the definition of "a racist act" has very fuzzy boundaries. White people set them in one place, black people have a larger set, Jews have a different set, Southerners, Northerners, Republicans, Democrats, SF fans, etc.
Given the above, when people disagree about whether a specific act is racist, the greatest expertise on the topic will generally not come from white people. When the white people are informed of this, they tend to get really cranky.
This is a problem in any demographic, but it can be worse for SF fans. One of the strongest messages of Campbellian SF is that smart people can solve any problem (even if it involves laws of physics you just discovered this morning), and if you read SF, you're one of the smart people. A more subtle message of Campbellian SF is "Men of Northern European extraction are the best!", since (per Asimov), Campbell actually believed that.
So, smart SF fans of Northern European extraction, when they are told that they are wrong about issues of race, and are incapable of gathering the experiences necessary to be experts, throw huge pissy fits.
They need to learn to admit their ignorance and listen.
