woodwardiocom: (LJ)
[personal profile] woodwardiocom
Well, after 14 years, the newest Terms Of Service for LJ have me switching to Dreamwidth.

I'm "woodwardiocom" over there, too.

Date: 2017-04-05 01:45 am (UTC)
minkrose: (eyebrow)
From: [personal profile] minkrose
So I'm guessing this is more about not trusting the new owners and less about the terms specifically being particularly bad, but I'd love a more details of your thoughts on this (perhaps posted to DW? :-P)

https://minkrose.dreamwidth.org/

Date: 2017-04-05 09:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] doctor-toc.livejournal.com
Part of the new TOS involve you agreeing to a part of the Russian legal code with no easy way of finding out what you're agreeing to (the full version of the agreement is solely published in Russian and contains no link to the quoted part of the legal code). In other words "you must agree to obey this rule, even though we're not going to tell you what it is." F that and the horse it rode in on.

Date: 2017-04-05 01:48 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I absolutely read every single word of the ToS, and looked up the Russian legal code, which is actually fairly easy to do.
http://www.wipo.int/edocs/lexdocs/laws/en/ru/ru083en.pdf

I also have a Russian-born friend who also uses LJ & I plan to follow up with her about the accuracy of the translation.

First, most of the referenced Russian Federation articles are fairly similar to American laws I see invoked in other ToS, though I am definitely not a lawyer (which is precisely why I asked Jon his opinion -- the lawyer friend I usually discuss these kinds of things with is not available this month). I get the impression that a lot of this is limiting civil protections to users of the service (unsurprising). My question is -- did we have any of those rights *before* this ToS? I haven't hunted down the old ToS via the Wayback machine yet, but I'd really like to see someone do a breakdown of a before & after comparison (& I'm not qualified to do that myself, imo).

Second, it specifically says in more than one place that such & such Article applies because the service is free, and then it says at the veeery end that "Paid Services are not subject of this Agreement. The Administration shall not be liable for Paid Services. All Paid Services’ related questions shall be address to Live Journal Inc."
So, as someone with a Permanent account, I'm wondering how much, if any, of this ToS applies to me. AND, what ToS *does* apply to me? It doesn't appear to be posted anywhere on the website. Again, planning to follow up on that, haven't yet.

But thirdly.... I'm not convinced there are real world consequences beyond having your Journal deleted? (& mine is backed up in many places, including DW.) Like, I sincerely doubt I would be extradited to Russia for anything I've ever written about in my LJ (because it's fairly tame). Are there folks I think could be affected? Absolutely, especially in Russia. Hopefully they've gotten their stuff over to DW already. But I believe in taking a reasonable, informed approach to risk assessment and my assessment is: the risk is actually fairly low for most folks I know living in the US and not posting "Content estimated by Russian legislation as inappropriate for children (0 −18) as “adult material” by using Service functions." and they don't have "more than three thousand Internet users access the Blog (the Blog’s page) within 24 hours."

I was already on DW anyway; for me, the current thing I'm trying to figure out is
1) what ToS applies to *my* paid/Permanent account?
2) is this bad enough to quit cross-posting from DW?

So far, my answer to 2 is "eh, probably not?" but if the answer is "oh fuck, definitely", then I'd really like insight into why.

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